Collaboration the key to combatting drugs in sport

On Side podcast - Season 6, Episode 4

The continuing threat to clean and fair sport of performance enhancing drugs, has become a task that requires a multidisciplinary approach. 

Podcast teaser

Dr Lawrence Teariki Puni, Chair Oceania Regional Anti-Doping Organisation: 

With limited resources, that's one of the key things, is utilising what resources we have overseas, especially with our partnerships as well. And so that's really important that we sort of strengthen that and develop that collaboration, especially with our regional partners as well.

So especially with Sport Integrity Australia, we have the Sports Integrity Commission from New Zealand, but also WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) as well. 

And so, I suppose it's one of those, we're not alone, and if we do need help, we have to just sort of put our hands up and say, ‘hey, can you assist?’.

John McLaughlin, WADA Investigator/Trainer: 

We want to create a global network. You said the Olympics are coming, sport’s global, it's not just regional and we want to use a mixture of the different sizes of organisations, different capacities, to create one overall capacity and capability where there can be sharing of information securely, we have law enforcement partners, so we're a bigger pool of resources together.

Some organisations just will never have the resource. Some have a lot more. So we look at it as a network and that network will, will support with small and large organisations within that.

Interview with Dr Lawrence Teariki Puni and John McLaughlin

Dinah Bryant: John, I wanted to start with you, if I may first. I'd love to hear a little bit about the role that you play at WADA as a trainer and what your job entails.

John McLaughlin: I was employed by WADA in 2022 and the main role I have, so I have a law enforcement background, I also had an anti-doping background, was an anti-doping investigator for world cycling. So with that combination, they were looking at an individual to be responsible for running a project with EU funding and it's an I&I, Investigation and Intelligence (I&I) Capacity and Capability Building project.

Bit of a mouthful, in Europe, okay. So it was a co-project with the European Union who were funding all of it and our aim was to target 48 countries in Europe, both NADO (National Anti-Doping Organisation) and their law enforcement partners, so that’s 53 NADOs, Belgium has three or four for some reason, and really, it was to build the capacity capabilities in terms of what the NADOs can do, what resources they have to do it, and to teach law enforcement a bit about what I&I looks like from an anti-doping perspective, and to bring those two groups together so that they can create a bit of synergy between them.

And the ultimate aim is to create operational intelligence work. And the real, the real proof in the pudding, if you like, is the number of operations we produce.

Dinah Bryant: And now WADA has announced this week the expansion of its Intelligence and Investigations Capability and Capacity Building project, that long, that long title you just said, into Asia and Oceania.

The conference here this week, is the first of six to be held across the Oceania region and Asia. What I guess you hoping to achieve out of out of this week, particularly with our guests that we do have.

John McLaughlin: So we have our NADOs with us this week and our law enforcement partners in Europe. The achievements can give you an idea of what, what we hope to achieve. It was pretty successful in Europe.

It resulted in over 100 operations, we thought maybe 5 or 6, we got 100 operations, and that was a mixture of the law enforcement participants, NADO participants and together, and with WADA. We seized 25 tonne of PEDs, Performance Enhancing Drugs. 

We dismantled 25 laboratories and most importantly, we've calculated we removed 500 million doses of PEDs from users or from the marketplace if you like.

So we're hoping to try and get that sort of traction. Other really important things for the NADOs especially, was that they got traction with their law enforcement partners, something that can be a struggle.

Law enforcement has a pull on its resources. Anti-doping probably isn't at the top of what they do, but there's still scope to do some good work together to highlight the criminality behind trafficking of PEDs and we're hoping to have the same sort of impact here.

It's a new landscape for me, Europe would be a lot more familiar for me, but it'll be good to get a grip on what that looks like in Asia, Oceania, and we're looking for the same thing. But the real priority for us is joint working.

Dinah Bryant: So to that point, Dr Puni, what are some of the challenges that I guess you're seeing in your region when it comes to anti-doping?

Dr Puni: Well, thank you for having me and hello to our viewers. One of the, I suppose, one of the biggest challenges is working together. At the moment every one's working in individual silos back home in terms of the Ministry of Police is doing its own sort of output in terms of work as well as customs, and also with our Ministry of Health and NADOs.

And so, one of the things, one of the objectives for this workshop was to try and establish that linkage between the two. And I think, you know, starting with internally, within ourselves as a country.

And so we're quite blessed to have the presence of some of our former customs agent accompany myself as well as a former police officer as well. So they've got a lot of experience between the two. And so it's about, and they're excited, they're really passionate about trying to establish that working relationship with our NADOs. So we're looking forward to strengthening that as well.

Dinah Bryant: And you have a medical background as well. So this is really I guess a field that you probably understand quite well.

Dr Puni: Yes, it's new as well. The Intelligence and Investigation is a very new sort of branch of a lot of NADOs especially in the Pacific as well. So we do a lot of testing. We do a lot of education and anti-doping, but the investigation and intelligence is somewhat still developing, in its infancy, and so having this workshop sort of helps us to sort of start that stage of stage 1, and moving and developing that relationship as well.

Dinah Bryant: And when it comes to sport, the spotlight will be turned on Brisbane in 2032 for the Olympic and Paralympic Games. Doctor Puni, what are some of the challenges I guess that you or the support that you need leading into 2032, which is being touted as the Pacific Games.

So what support do you need from WADA, from Australia and New Zealand to make sure that your athletes, your sports administrators and ORADO are ready to, to compete on a level playing field in Brisbane?

Dr Puni: It's a fair question. I mean, with limited resources, that's one of the key things, is utilising what resources we have overseas, especially with our partnerships as well. And so that's really important that we sort of strengthen that and develop that collaboration, especially with our regional partners as well.

So especially with Sport Integrity Australia, we have the Sports Integrity Commission from New Zealand, but also WADA as well. And so, I suppose it's one of those, we're not alone, and if we do need help, we have to just sort of put our hands up and say, hey, can you assist, and that's something we're very happy to do as well. And we're quite fortunate that currently we have that support, but that's just taking it to the next level.

Dinah Bryant: How are your members finding the week so far? What are some of the key takeaways or learnings for you so far?

Dr Puni: Yes, so we were just talking about that this evening in terms of just, it's nice that we've had a case scenario that we've be working through throughout the week and how that information evolves and how you can put it and analyse it, and put it all together as well. So it's been quite informative for most of us.

We do have some police officers present with us as well. So it's, it's a good revision for them as well. We're just talking about the Admiralty scale, and that's something new that I've learned and that's something used commonly in the law enforcement. So those are just some examples that we’re utilising as well.

Dinah Bryant: And John, for you and your position at WADA, how important is it that that Australia and New Zealand and WADA lends support to Oceania who I guess in some cases don't have the resources that a country like Australia or countries across Europe do have.

John McLaughlin: Well, I think Doctor Puni hit the nail on the head. You're not alone. And so we started in Europe with the I&I Capacity and Capability Program, but now we're in Asia Oceania, and that’s part of a wider network, so it's the global, WADA’s Global Anti-Doping Intelligence & Investigations Network, or GAIIN.

And what we want to do is create Europe, mix or link it together with Asia Oceania, and the next two regions we’ll target will be the Americas and Africa. So we want to create a global network.

You said the Olympics were coming. Sport’s global, it's not just regional, and we want to use a mixture of the different sizes of organisations and different capacities to create one overall capacity and capability where there can be sharing of information securely, with law enforcement partners, so we're a bigger pool of resources together.

Some organisations just will never have the resource. Some have a lot more. So we look at it as a network. And that network will support both small and large organisations within that network.

Dinah Bryant: Are there any particular challenges that you see or that you're thinking about leading into 2032 obviously being a bit biased leading into our Australian games in 2032? What do you think are some of the main threats or the main concerns and what areas do we need to focus on?

John McLaughlin: Australia is an island. There's the first thing. So straight away you have border control. You have athletes, lots of athletes coming here to train well before the games and compete. So there's a need where if we have information intelligence that athletes are travelling, we need to link that with law enforcement, because I don't have a badge anymore. I don't have any powers anymore.

So, you know, we might have that intelligence, but we need somebody to action it as well. So these are challenges whereby it's not as simple that we can get this and just deal with it. We need assistance through that network, that might be police internally in Australia, it could be border force in Australia, it could be other NADOs with athletes travelling maybe to nearby countries, within Oceania to benefit from training facilities and attendance.

So you can see automatically when you look at a global games, the problem isn't just at the games, it starts way before them.

Dinah Bryant: And as you said, the program in Europe, 500 million doses of Performance Enhancing Drugs taken off the market, I guess. It really shows the importance of collaboration with law enforcement, doesn't it?

John McLaughlin: Yeah, you know, at the end of the day, these substances don't just appear, most of them are trafficked. Some are made in clandestine labs and the raw ingredients will be trafficked, normally from the manufacturer in China.

Finished products, a lot of them are made in India with its pharma industry, but also in clandestine underground labs of products which are very risky for human health, made in unsanitary conditions.

So law enforcement, having involvement for that reason, that it's breaking the law, trafficking. It has a very financially beneficial criminal aspect. You're probably talking per tonne, $2 million Australian dollars per tonne.

So, if you start doing these sums from, you know all those operations, it’s a massive amount of money. The traffickers who traffic this are unscrupulous. They don't care about the athletes that take it or the people in the gym that take it, or whoever takes it. It's a mass marketplace now with image, and body perfection, social media.

It went from being a very niche athletes and bodybuilders, to a mass marketplace and there's a lot of money to be made, so you have unscrupulous criminals, targeting clean sport.

Dinah Bryant: And on that note, clean sport, we're all here for the same reason to try and make sure that all of our athletes across the world can compete on a level playing field.

f I can ask you both what is the impact or I guess how important is the support that Australia and Sport integrity Australia in particular is providing to both the Oceania and WADA?

Dr Puni: Well, with regards to ORADO, it's basically, the sort of addressing the spectrum at the very beginning. Preventative, you know, focusing a lot on education and awareness. It's also making sure that we're doing testing as well. And so a lot of our samples, through our relationship with Australia, come to an accredited lab here in Australia as well.

And so there's a lot of help in that sense. There's a financial backing. There are also resources in kind that SIA has provided for us, so we're very grateful for that and we'll continue working with that as well.

John McLaughlin: For us, for a start they’re our hosts for the week for this workshop, and which has been fantastic. They're very professional and generous. They also have very experienced staff, so they have staff with law enforcement backgrounds themselves, scientific backgrounds, a great mix of staff and you know.

Once we are in a region, we rely on experienced people to form that network with law enforcement. Sport Integrity Australia has those connections already with law enforcement agencies and those law enforcement agencies have wider connections in the Asia Oceania region, which we will rely on.

Because as trafficking involves multiple countries, crime isn’t ever just in one place. So we already have that linkage with Sport Integrity Australia from what they've set up here and it's critical because you know, we're based in Canada and Europe, we're not based in Australia. So it's a real critical link to have such a strong organisation behind us.

Dinah Bryant: Next steps. The conference will end. What are the next steps for you, Dr Puni and for you, John, as you now move on, I guess to the next phase of doing the work that that you do to protect sport.

Dr Puni: Absolutely. So I guess it's all about sharing information so going back home and just starting formulating that relationship with our customs and our police, I think that's the first step in terms of sort of, in-house organising ourselves in-house before we sort of start looking elsewhere and it's building that relationship with those ministries as well, it's very important.

And then ideally keeping those communications lines open as well and having focal people, focal contacts within the ministries that we can liaise with directly. Because I think one of the challenges that um, in the islands, a lot of people wear a lot of hats and so they become quite overwhelmed with their duties. And so, identifying individuals that can be, or passionate, about it, but also can link us to the right people as well. So that's the first step.

Dinah Bryant: And for you, John?

John McLaughlin: For us, the first thing we do is we review. We have a debrief of the workshop, every workshops different. We try and improve our material. Try and tweak it. Try and see what the attendees have told us as well, because this isn't just about us dictating to them, we learn a lot every workshop and we can use that to go to the next workshop.

It's also about support, about us being there for the people who've just, we still support Europe, we still support each people when they leave us. We want to encourage communication. We want to hear about operational work. That's a very important measure in this whole thing. And WADA, it's a new pillar for WADA in the fight for clean sport.

So we, we test, we educate, we have and I&I, and now we have, we're actually not targeting just dopers, we're targeting doping networks, so we want to hear about the operational work that's going on as a result of this workshop, and that can look very different. That could be that we now have a liaison with our local law enforcement. We're talking to each other. We're planning, we're forming MOUs, or it could be we're working on the biggest job in the world in terms of a seizure, that can look very different. But that's what we want to see. That's the real, tangible results for us joint working proven by operational or intelligence, or joint working successes, relationship successes.

Dinah Bryant: Doctor Puni one more for you. If there was a bottomless pit of funding that you were able to have access to what are some of the things that you would most like to see or implement in your region to, to get ahead of the game when it comes to anti-doping.

Dr Puni: One is a dedicated staff member. I, I think that is really important for us cause a lot of our, our Members are volunteers and so they have their primary job that they do first and foremost before they sort of address their NADO objectives as well. So just in terms of having someone to drive that bus and then having that person focus on the operational stuff, carrying out the activities as well.

So, hence why there's the ORADO, they provide a lot of the admin and facilitate a lot of our activities and also some of our governance, our plans as well, because we just don't have the capacity to employ someone full time or part time.

Dinah Bryant: So obviously a lot more work to do. There always will be to try and stay ahead of the game. Are there any final words from either of you on? I guess the collaboration that you've experienced so far this week and the working relationships that you've formed to, to move ahead.

Dr Puni: Absolutely. I mean the timing of this workshop is quite timely in terms of we're building towards the 2032 games as well. And so the work starts now. And so we look forward to this space and we look forward to working more with our, not just with, just with Cook Islands itself, but with other Pacific Islands and also developing that relationship with Australia, New Zealand and all our stakeholders as well, including WADA as well. So we look forward to that.

John McLaughlin: Yeah. For us, it was a timely arrival. In Australia, we arrived to hear of an 11 kilo seizure and a $300,000 seizure in Queensland, which border force were involved with as well, both of which are attending this week. So straight away we're hitting the ground running with some operational work that links in, in a small way to the workshop. And for us as well, it's been, it's different to Europe.

Yep, and a lot of the Oceania nations have their own, like you say, volunteers, lots of volunteers, resource issues, stuff like that. But they're probably as keen as anybody I've seen in a workshop today. They're just love loving it out there, really. So it's about finding out the new aspects of a new region and that filters back to trafficking and other things cause every region looks different.

Dinah Bryant: If you had one word to sum up the experience, what would it be?

Dr Puni: Innovation. That's for me. I think it's about just making what you have, make it work, and then just going from there.

John McLaughlin: Network. Network, you’re part of a bigger network. You’re not on your own.

Dinah Bryant: Because you can't do it on your own.

John McLaughlin: No, and you don’t have to.

Dinah Bryant: Dr Puni and John McLaughlin, thank you very much for joining us today and for bringing this conference to Australia and for allowing Sport integrity Australia to be involved.

John McLaughlin: Thank you.

Dr Puni: Thank you.

Narrator: You've been listening to On Side the official podcast of Sport Integrity Australia. Send in your podcast questions or suggestions to media@sportintegrity.gov.au. 

For more information on Sport Integrity Australia, please visit our website: sportsintegrity.gov.au or checkout our Clean Sport app.